Ramblerambleramble...
Jun. 26th, 2005 06:44 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
persephone_koreI keep seeing entries lately where, in relation to the next Harry Potter book, people hold forth or argue about whether it's legitimate to prejudge Plot Development X (or the lack thereof) as good or bad. I'm a little torn, myself. I think that there are some developments I could safely say ahead of time would strike me as unenjoyable or inconsistent or lower quality than other alternatives -- even some plausible ones. On the other hand, I tend to think that nearly any scenario can be done well... and as others have previously pointed out, JKR's stock in trade involves putting together innumerable cliches (or classic story elements) in her own way. The world's bricks and her own mortar, so to speak. Kinda like Star Wars, and I mean that with no disrespect to either JKR or Lucas.
I am not making any pledges about staying in the fandom, or not judging the book based on one particular element or another, or declaring that if I made a wrong prediction it was my own fault for misreading. Considering that there are plenty of library books I've read and reread without ever buying my own copies, I think the fact that I've got a copy of HBP on reserve and intend to pick it up sometime on July 16 is a perfectly adequate expression of confidence that A. after writing five books I enjoyed, JKR will not suddenly shift into some bizarre gear of BANG (or POO) and B. I will want to talk to people about the book badly enough to pay for it in hardcover.
(I freely admit to being very fandom-influenced in that respect. If I didn't want to discuss it with people, I wouldn't consider reading it to be nearly so urgent a prospect.)
I will say, however, that there are stories where I adore certain concepts or characters but disagree with the author on major points and/or think the execution/development/followup was poor or erratic. So I can understand people who find their imagination captured by some aspects of a story but find themselves "fighting" with other portions.
But what the heck, I think I'll make some predictions about HBP. Granted, some of the stuff I was tickled to get right about OotP was a complete accident. I feel free to gloat about the characterization Alan and I gave Ginny in the Time's Riddle AU, since it was based on the assumption that she was generally pretty spunky in situations more normal than her first year, which are not hard to come by. While circumstances and not-being-JKR dictate that there are probably aspects that aren't a perfect fit, the Ginny thrust into our attention in OotP confirmed our basic conclusions. On the other hand, our study group that was supposed to end up in a little-known room of Hogwarts and our magical chameleons whose extreme blending-in camouflage worked about the same way as the Disillusionment Charm? Total chance, but terribly amusing.
Anyway, here goes: HBP predictions with a few book 7 thrown in.
1. The half-blood prince will turn out to be Godric Gryffindor. Merlin and Salazar are running second in my mind.
2. We will learn more about the Founders.
2a. This will include having it shown that Godric, Rowena, and/or Helga had flaws and could act like jerks.
2b. In accordance with the respose to Dumbledore's fallibility and Snape's Worst Memory, much of the fandom will forget anything positive we know about them and throw fits about how all the Founders except Salazar are evil, irredeemable, worthless scum.
3. We will learn more about Tom Riddle's background. (I suspect this is not actually a prediction but a reference to an interview, but I'm not sure.)
4. Harry will be back on the Quidditch team as Seeker.
5. Someone will explain to Harry the difference between murder and killing in self-defense. (This may only be wishful thinking.)
6. Parseltongue will become relevant again. It's about time.
6a. The boa will show up or be mentioned again. (Just-for-fun prediction.)
7. Snape will not be a villain. He might look like one for a while (again), and he will still frequently be a jerk, but Harry will eventually have to come to terms with the fact that Snape does not like him but has made real efforts to protect him anyway. Even though they broke down over Occlumency and the Pensieve. But frankly, I don't buy that book one's decoy-villain will turn out to be one for real, and I don't think JKR will break down what she's established in terms of a personal enemy genuinely doing wrong but being an ally and not-evil in the larger sense.
7a. I don't know whether Snape will or won't come to terms with the fact that Harry is not James, that his own view of James may have been skewed, and/or that Harry was nosing into the Pensieve out of suspicion rather than prurience. I'd really like him to, though. (Especially considering that some of the reading audience doesn't seem to grasp this last point. *eyeroll*)
8. Both Godric's Hollow and the Riddle House will be important again, but I'm not sure whether this will be in book 6 or 7.
9. HBP will not feel as "down" as OotP. No doubt there will be areas in which things will fall apart (the Dementors are running around loose, after all, and the DEs may well escape), but I think that even if Voldemort is making moves and causing major problems, the indications are that Harry and those immediately around him will be regrouping and getting their act together. I don't think any of the characters were at their best in OotP, and I think they will be doing a little better here. (OotP was darker than I was expecting, true, and it showed that I had probably been inclined to be too charitable in my estimation of many of the characters' good sense -- but it was still fun in many places, and I still don't think the overall tone of the series is going to head straight down a Dementor's throat. Nor do I agree with those who think it would be a better story if it did.)
10. The business of inter-house unity will start involving the Slytherins. There have been signs of this right from the first book on; while Harry certainly has a dark side, I don't think "You would do well in Slytherin" is necessarily it. There are definitely real problems with Slytherin House, and some of them go straight back to Salazar Slytherin -- but while Slytherin has problems, I think Harry and others have made excessively sweeping assumptions. There will be some changes on both sides, in both attitude and reality, and I think HBP is where it's going to have to start.
11. Bonus prediction for the series as a whole, aka, attack of the really obvious:
11a. Harry will win.
11b. The prophecy will not mean quite what Harry and Dumbledore currently think it does. It will probably surprise Voldemort, too.
12. Predictions for the series as a whole which are not quite as certain:
12a. The Trio finishes the story alive.
12b. Hermione gets Ron, and vice versa, and they are happy about it.
12c. Ginny gets Harry, and vice versa, and they are happy about it too.
I am not making any pledges about staying in the fandom, or not judging the book based on one particular element or another, or declaring that if I made a wrong prediction it was my own fault for misreading. Considering that there are plenty of library books I've read and reread without ever buying my own copies, I think the fact that I've got a copy of HBP on reserve and intend to pick it up sometime on July 16 is a perfectly adequate expression of confidence that A. after writing five books I enjoyed, JKR will not suddenly shift into some bizarre gear of BANG (or POO) and B. I will want to talk to people about the book badly enough to pay for it in hardcover.
(I freely admit to being very fandom-influenced in that respect. If I didn't want to discuss it with people, I wouldn't consider reading it to be nearly so urgent a prospect.)
I will say, however, that there are stories where I adore certain concepts or characters but disagree with the author on major points and/or think the execution/development/followup was poor or erratic. So I can understand people who find their imagination captured by some aspects of a story but find themselves "fighting" with other portions.
But what the heck, I think I'll make some predictions about HBP. Granted, some of the stuff I was tickled to get right about OotP was a complete accident. I feel free to gloat about the characterization Alan and I gave Ginny in the Time's Riddle AU, since it was based on the assumption that she was generally pretty spunky in situations more normal than her first year, which are not hard to come by. While circumstances and not-being-JKR dictate that there are probably aspects that aren't a perfect fit, the Ginny thrust into our attention in OotP confirmed our basic conclusions. On the other hand, our study group that was supposed to end up in a little-known room of Hogwarts and our magical chameleons whose extreme blending-in camouflage worked about the same way as the Disillusionment Charm? Total chance, but terribly amusing.
Anyway, here goes: HBP predictions with a few book 7 thrown in.
1. The half-blood prince will turn out to be Godric Gryffindor. Merlin and Salazar are running second in my mind.
2. We will learn more about the Founders.
2a. This will include having it shown that Godric, Rowena, and/or Helga had flaws and could act like jerks.
2b. In accordance with the respose to Dumbledore's fallibility and Snape's Worst Memory, much of the fandom will forget anything positive we know about them and throw fits about how all the Founders except Salazar are evil, irredeemable, worthless scum.
3. We will learn more about Tom Riddle's background. (I suspect this is not actually a prediction but a reference to an interview, but I'm not sure.)
4. Harry will be back on the Quidditch team as Seeker.
5. Someone will explain to Harry the difference between murder and killing in self-defense. (This may only be wishful thinking.)
6. Parseltongue will become relevant again. It's about time.
6a. The boa will show up or be mentioned again. (Just-for-fun prediction.)
7. Snape will not be a villain. He might look like one for a while (again), and he will still frequently be a jerk, but Harry will eventually have to come to terms with the fact that Snape does not like him but has made real efforts to protect him anyway. Even though they broke down over Occlumency and the Pensieve. But frankly, I don't buy that book one's decoy-villain will turn out to be one for real, and I don't think JKR will break down what she's established in terms of a personal enemy genuinely doing wrong but being an ally and not-evil in the larger sense.
7a. I don't know whether Snape will or won't come to terms with the fact that Harry is not James, that his own view of James may have been skewed, and/or that Harry was nosing into the Pensieve out of suspicion rather than prurience. I'd really like him to, though. (Especially considering that some of the reading audience doesn't seem to grasp this last point. *eyeroll*)
8. Both Godric's Hollow and the Riddle House will be important again, but I'm not sure whether this will be in book 6 or 7.
9. HBP will not feel as "down" as OotP. No doubt there will be areas in which things will fall apart (the Dementors are running around loose, after all, and the DEs may well escape), but I think that even if Voldemort is making moves and causing major problems, the indications are that Harry and those immediately around him will be regrouping and getting their act together. I don't think any of the characters were at their best in OotP, and I think they will be doing a little better here. (OotP was darker than I was expecting, true, and it showed that I had probably been inclined to be too charitable in my estimation of many of the characters' good sense -- but it was still fun in many places, and I still don't think the overall tone of the series is going to head straight down a Dementor's throat. Nor do I agree with those who think it would be a better story if it did.)
10. The business of inter-house unity will start involving the Slytherins. There have been signs of this right from the first book on; while Harry certainly has a dark side, I don't think "You would do well in Slytherin" is necessarily it. There are definitely real problems with Slytherin House, and some of them go straight back to Salazar Slytherin -- but while Slytherin has problems, I think Harry and others have made excessively sweeping assumptions. There will be some changes on both sides, in both attitude and reality, and I think HBP is where it's going to have to start.
11. Bonus prediction for the series as a whole, aka, attack of the really obvious:
11a. Harry will win.
11b. The prophecy will not mean quite what Harry and Dumbledore currently think it does. It will probably surprise Voldemort, too.
12. Predictions for the series as a whole which are not quite as certain:
12a. The Trio finishes the story alive.
12b. Hermione gets Ron, and vice versa, and they are happy about it.
12c. Ginny gets Harry, and vice versa, and they are happy about it too.
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no subject
Date: 2005-06-27 05:14 am (UTC)Heh. Maddening sometimes, but still... it definitely adds something. (And I can always withdraw to my core of Relatively Sane People, or Similarly Insane People, whenever some sections get annoying.) I think about things I wouldn't otherwise... yeah.
I think this is why I never felt that the Room of Requirement was anything too unusual, and similar things have made me react similarly... because this fandom is so huge, and you really can read a lot of fic if you feel like it- and I was, before OotP, although not so much right now- that, like the Shakespeare's monkeys theory, eventually someone is going to write something that's similar to what happens. I do think it's made my reading a little bit different, a sort of more seamless transition, in the little details.
Well, the Room of Requirement definitely wasn't how I'd pictured it -- ours was a lot tamer, and used to be Salazar Slytherin's office -- but it was still amusing. (And the Disillusionment spell matching the chameleons was just completely random.)
But yes, I think you're right. And I think this is why a lot of people complained that OotP felt like fanfic: so many people were guessing, and JKR had left enough clues, that there had to be elements people had guessed. But there were still things nobody got.
Ginny didn't strike me as unexpected, though I don't think I was inclined to downplay her because of it -- I was stuck on her straight on from CoS. *g* Well, strike that -- I was a bit startled by the... edge, by the lying to Molly and such. As I think I've said elsewhere, I was probably too charitable toward a lot of characters.
I suppose I can see her being a surprise, but the kind of surprise that fits and makes you go, "Oh, so that's how it is," not "What the heck, where did that come from?" -- I tend to attribute the claims of a 180-degree character change to coming from the wrong side of fandom. ;) Maybe that isn't fair.
all of a sudden everyone's very sorry for Snape- I never liked him and I still don't.
Oh, I actually do like him -- not that he's nice, but he's fun -- but not because of SWM.
I think Harry does have some empathy for the underdog, though. Just because it isn't something he sits down and thinks out (except, actually, in Snape's Worst Memory) doesn't mean it isn't there; he doesn't really go out of his way on a regular basis, but he does strike me as inclined to be kind/sympathetic when it comes up. Unless they're actively annoying him, in which case most people are sunk anyway.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-27 05:23 am (UTC)- I tend to attribute the claims of a 180-degree character change to coming from the wrong side of fandom. ;) You, me, and the rest of the sane people agree. ;)
I think Harry does have some empathy for the underdog, though. Just because it isn't something he sits down and thinks out (except, actually, in Snape's Worst Memory) doesn't mean it isn't there;
*considers* a good point, actually.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-27 05:38 am (UTC)Hee.
*considers* a good point, actually.
Thanks. :) If I may take the excuse to elaborate... Without looking back through them, I really can't think of a whole lot of introspection anywhere in the books. There's... wondering if he can really be a wizard, maybe, in PS, and the attacks of house-related self-doubt in CoS, and stopping to contemplate his reaction to Ron's prefect badge in OotP... and I'm sure there are other cases, but it doesn't seem to be something he delves into on a regular basis.
It also occurs to me, however, that he may need to do a little bit more of it in the next couple of books. Maybe he can get through reevaluating people and pulling himself together and so forth without... he's certainly rearranged ideas "on the move" before... but I'm not sure that's how it'll go. Especially if he's partly reevaluating his own actions and instincts.